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Warmachine and Hordes Tactical / Re: #KhadorMK3, 2016 Edition
« Last post by Ghlod on Today at 04:26:23 AM »
Went to a local turney on Saturday and brought Vlad2, Irusk2.
Second list was a toss up between Irusk2 and Zerkova1 neither of which I had played before which is always good :p

Dropped Vlad2 into Stryker3 running Thorn, Gallant, Squire, min Lances, max Lances, Runewood and double max trenchers on Outlast.
Lost due to being stupid on scenario.

Played Vlad2 into Thexus on Entrenched.
Win on caster kill as my opponenet feels down on attrition so he goes for an assasination as I mis-plays Vlad2 letting him get 3 Drudges on me.
Vlad2 lives on 2 boxes and Thexus goes down to Rifles and  Uhlans.

I get to play Trolls in my 3rd game running Doomy3 and Calandra.
I know I'm getting Doomy3 so I want to test if Irusk2 has game into it.
My list is:
Quote
Irusk2
* Reinhold
* Torch
* Black Ivan
Joe
Orin
Ayiana & Holt
max Riflemen
* 3 Rocketeers
min Uhlans
min Uhlans

I forget my plan of trying to get him to feat first by threatening with Uhlans so I end up loosing on scenario as the clock runs out.
Should have gotten into the Mauler with Cav, had him feat and hold for a turn then go into him again with the second cav unit while flanking with A&H + Orin.


Last round I get to face CoC running Theme with Axis and Mother on Incursion.
Since I have Orin he's dropping Axis into me and even though I know Vlad2 is better in this matchup I'm dropping Irusk2 as I want the practice.

His list is Axis, 4 Inverters, Corolary(sp?) and the +range light, 2x TEPs and 15 Shield Gaurd Servitors...

During my turn 2 (top 2) I figure out that I can't put Irusk within 17" of the TEPs, nor can he feat on them as they have 14" with the -3 +2 from Axis Feat...
Stupidity then ensues as I let him get 3 CPs with no real plan on how to stop him from getting 2 more due to stupid deployment.
TEPs kill Cav real fast so the correct deployment here is probably overloading one side with both Cav units while a jack keeps the other 2 flags.
In any case I'd probably loose on scenario as a TEP averages 18 boxes a turn on a ARM 20 jack so if movement goes it's dead.

Going to try a Zerkova1 list this Thursday into trolls, probably getting Doomy3 in return.
The list is:

Quote
Zerkova1
* Torch
* Juggernaut
Orin
Malakov
* Ruin
Joe
Max Rifles + 3 rocketeers
min Uhlans
min Uhlans

Idea is cloud wall to deliver Uhlans, force feat and hold then deliver Uhlans + Ruin hopefully.
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis episode 295
« Last post by Charmant on Today at 03:18:13 AM »
I'm pretty convinced the baseline heavies generally need to go up a point or two in cost, and baseline heavy warbeasts down a point or two. Fury is in and of itself better than Focus for the heavies, but the discrepancy in cost often feels way too big. A carnivean is better than a driller but it is not almost twice as good.

This difference makes hordes players feel a lot worse off, and I think there is legitimacy to that sentiment. It's not as bad as it feels, but the pricing isn't fair. I think this is probably cause of much of the problems people have with the game.

I love cheap and plentiful warjacks but there probably are too many. The meta is probably swinging back - I see a lot of infantry being played all over the place - but I'm not sure it is enough.

That being said I love MK3 outside of the outliers Haley 2/3 and Una/Wurmwood
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis episode 295
« Last post by Sc077y on Today at 03:05:53 AM »
while it was refreshing to hear you guys police yourselves on the amount of negativity you have towards the game, the only feedback i could give is to keep doing so.  I understand not everyone will get along, not everyone will agree with everything that PP does, but the amount of negativity in the game has grown significantly in the last year.

i know a lot of that is directly due to the MK3 launch, and how rocky it was/is. Its also ok to have a dissenting opinion, but it seems like lately on the cast, within the last 3 months, it has gone from just discussing differences of opinions to just outright trashing PP for what seems like every decision they make.  It isn't fair that so many take the opinions and content you provide in your podcast to heart, i agree, but for many players, we experience a part of the hobby vicariously through this and other podcasts.  So to hear so much negativity from people who have been the face of the game since i started playing, and longer, well, it could have a negative impact on not only the podcast but the branding of muse on minis.

I love to listen because i love the intarraction and logical thought that is brought to the podcast. I love the devils advocate discussion, and i love the intricacies and interactions brought forth by the podcast members.  I just dont love the constant compaigning.  All of that said, I could literally be the only one in the world who feels this way, and if i am, or i am just reading into it more than i should, please forgive my statements as nothing more than casual observation.  The intent is to provide feedback, not to criticize.  I have and do value the podcast greatly.

As far as tournaments go, i think that, from my perspective, i can drive an hour to Springdale, Ar, or another hour to KC, Mo, and find the power lists, but i dont see them everywhere, and i dont see the same casters overpopulate a tournament.  Its not uncommon to see Sloan or Wurmwood, but its also not rare to see Zerkova 1 or Thagrosh 2 in a ntournament pairing either.

The weirdest thing is, i build my lists for flexibility, when im playing trolls, i tend to favor combined arms lists, and the same is definetely true for khador when im playing them.  Outside of the most extreme skews, i typically will always do better in an event (im a typical X-1 player with my losses typically coming in on round 3 or 4) with a tactically flexible list than i will with a skew, or a list designed to play into a skew.  Sure, i have a plan for skews, and the challenges those lists provide, but those plans, while not as strong with balanced lists playing into a skew are typically strong enough to not loose outright and i just have to play a little tighter than my opponent.  I also try to cover breaking armor and dealing with hordes of infantry (we have a cephalyx player semi locally, as well as minions and some other factions that like to play a little heavier on infantry) in my conventional list pair, so that also may make it a bit easier and color my perception of how tournaments work, and what i see.
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis episode 295
« Last post by Bomma on Today at 02:25:22 AM »
Re: Chads tournament question.

I hang out down in Aaron Wale's meta in sunny Tasmania, Australia where he regularly beats all us plebs at the state wide SRs as practice for his trips abroad.. but his competition is all the current casters and 'power' lists. The only factor stopping someone from running the perceived top stuff is either availability or that persons current financial situation.

Our last SR had Una2 griffon spam/Wurmwood pairing, Maddog Karchev spam (before the errata)/Irusk2, Haley3/Caine2.. So the perceived 'power' lists are making it down to casuals play regardless of the doomsaying from the forums or nerfs that are incoming. Wouldn't be hard to imagine this happening in other metas, specially bigger ones with players that do get to attend all the US cons or with more players that get to travel about.

B.
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis 293
« Last post by FlakManiak on Today at 01:25:11 AM »
Oh, maybe it's the terrain guidelines from Prime I'm thinking of. I should put those out of my mind once and for all.
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis 293
« Last post by kamilion on January 15, 2017, 11:21:58 PM »
One thing I don't like is the "no obstructions in zones" rule. I can see why it's there, but I think you can have non-egregious obstructions in zones, and it's hard to place obstructions in fun + interesting places if you can't have them overlap zones at all
Fortunately, that's actually not in the steamroller rules anymore.

Quote
As a general rule, an average table should have six to eight pieces of terrain placed closely enough to eliminate large open areas without unduly constricting movement. The size of terrain pieces is also important. No piece should be insignificantly small or extremely large; pieces from 3˝ to 6˝ in length and width are best.

Terrain pieces are categorized as restricted or unrestricted for the purposes of setting up tables.
• Unrestricted terrain: dense fog, forests, hills, rough terrain, rubble, shallow water, trenches.
• Restricted terrain: hazards, obstructions, obstacles.

We recommend that the majority of terrain on a table is unrestricted terrain. The exact number, type, and placement of terrain pieces are up to the EO, but the following terrain rules must be followed when setting up tables.
• Do not place terrain within 6˝ of any table edge.
• Unrestricted terrain pieces cannot be placed within 2˝ of any other terrain piece. Trenches, however, can be placed in contact with other trenches.
• Restricted terrain cannot be placed within deployment zones or within 5˝ of any other restricted terrain piece.
• When placing restricted terrain within scenario zones or near flags and objectives, the EO must take care to not accidently block off important sections of the battlefield from models with huge bases (e.g., an obstacle within 3˝ of a flag would be acceptable, but placing additional obstructions or obstacles around that flag that prevent a huge base from interacting with the flag would not be acceptable).
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis 293
« Last post by FlakManiak on January 15, 2017, 10:35:10 PM »
I set up a table at the muse shop to play warmachine on, it's got like 10 pieces of terrain. It's disruptive but not miserable. I'll post a picture when I can.

I wanna see that picture.

I've been thinking about whether the terrain I use for my games is anywhere near normal, and I just don't know since I don't see other people's tables much. I think I'll start photographing the terrain before every game I play; maybe there should be a "critique my terrain setup" thread. So people can get feedback but also calibrate off others' setups.

And I agree that the terrain should be disruptive and relevant. It's hard to balance that against, well, faction/list balance, because it's fairly easy to make terrain that favors one thing over another, but still. We should try.

One thing I don't like is the "no obstructions in zones" rule. I can see why it's there, but I think you can have non-egregious obstructions in zones, and it's hard to place obstructions in fun + interesting places if you can't have them overlap zones at all.

I'm not a huge fan of the requirement to lay out tables so that colossals can get everywhere, but I probably wouldn't have added colossals to the game in the first place. That said, in practice, "colossals must be able to contest/control" is not so bad. Unless it's taken to the extreme and means that NO obstructions can be within a huge base's diameter of a flag. That would be a shitty requirement. But also, don't put obstructions "on P1's side of a flag, meaning their colossal has to go super far around" or whatever. Meh. Colossals exist, so yeah, we have to accommodate them. It doesn't actually restrict that many things I'd want to do.
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis episode 295
« Last post by octavius_maximus on January 15, 2017, 08:16:44 PM »
Thinking further, the cheap heavies could probably come up a bit, that would make  space for the lights.

IMO, all of the economy 'jacks are probably a little under-costed.  Juggernaut, Marauder, Nomad, Driller, Crusader, etc. 10-12 points for a heavy is just an incredibly good deal when a decent unit will run you 16-20 and probably won't be able to kill a budget heavy a lot of the time.  Heck, even weapon master units are generally only going to be able to kill one heavy, assuming that they even make it to the fight.

I mean, it used to be that infantry was hard for heavies to deal with, but that doesn't really seems to be the case in Mk3.  IMO, spamming a particular model isn't really the problem with Mk3 - The problem is that getting a ridiculous number of boxes at ARM 19+ is so easy to do and has so few down sides.

What counters 200 or 300 high-ARM boxes?  Pretty much just 200 or 300 high-ARM boxes of your own.  That isn't a very interesting meta.

Storm brigade isn't bad at hurting that many boxes :p
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis episode 295
« Last post by StevenSwayze on January 15, 2017, 07:48:53 PM »
in·sight
ˈinˌsīt/

in·cite
inˈsīt/

The only difference is where the emphasis is placed.


Ah it's one of those Mackle -more, Mack -lemore things.
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Warmachine and Hordes General / Re: Muse on Minis episode 295
« Last post by Vex on January 15, 2017, 06:54:15 PM »
Thinking further, the cheap heavies could probably come up a bit, that would make  space for the lights.

IMO, all of the economy 'jacks are probably a little under-costed.  Juggernaut, Marauder, Nomad, Driller, Crusader, etc. 10-12 points for a heavy is just an incredibly good deal when a decent unit will run you 16-20 and probably won't be able to kill a budget heavy a lot of the time.  Heck, even weapon master units are generally only going to be able to kill one heavy, assuming that they even make it to the fight.

I mean, it used to be that infantry was hard for heavies to deal with, but that doesn't really seems to be the case in Mk3.  IMO, spamming a particular model isn't really the problem with Mk3 - The problem is that getting a ridiculous number of boxes at ARM 19+ is so easy to do and has so few down sides.

What counters 200 or 300 high-ARM boxes?  Pretty much just 200 or 300 high-ARM boxes of your own.  That isn't a very interesting meta.
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